England Fans Pray - TalkSoccer

Z.Z · 29-04-2006, 01:39 PM

If Rooney is out of the world cup, England cannot beat a good side in my opinion. Without him we have no more right to be hopefull of glory than a Sweden or Mexico.

**russe||** · 29-04-2006, 01:43 PM

Even without Rooney we are better than Sweden or Mexico but I think you are right.

**D-Kin** · 29-04-2006, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Z.Z

If Rooney is out of the world cup, England cannot beat a good side in my opinion. Without him we have no more right to be hopefull of glory than a Sweden or Mexico.

And that's why England are an average side.

They put all their hopes on some kid and now that he's injured no one thinks they can do it.

**russe||** · 29-04-2006, 01:48 PM

I remember when there were concerns over Totti's chances of playing in the finals, Italy fans on here were saying their chances may be over.

Our best 11 is at least a match for yours but we only have two world class strikers. Our strength in depth as in defence ad midfield, not up front.

The England side is on a par of the Italian team so if you think that makes us average then fair enough.

**D-Kin** · 29-04-2006, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by russe||

I remember when there were concerns over Totti's chances of playing in the finals, Italy fans on here were saying their chances may be over.

Our best 11 is at least a match for yours but we only have two world class strikers. Our strength in depth as in defence ad midfield, not up front.

The England side is on a par of the Italian team so if you think that makes us average then fair enough.

I agree that the midfield is class but defensively England have problems. I mean Ferdinand today showed how pathetic he can be when Joe Cole embarassed him on the edge of his area. Woodgate is better in my opinion (when he's fit). Owen is the only world class striker England have in my opinion but overall I can't see them getting past the quarter finals.

**D-Kin** · 29-04-2006, 01:55 PM

And I think Italy have the edge over England, this is how I see it:

Buffon > Robinson
Cannavaro and Nesta > Ferdinand and Terry
Zambrotta > Neville
Grosso < A. Cole
Totti > Lampard
Camoranesi < Beckham
Pirlo > Gerrard
Gattuso = J. Cole
Toni and Gilardino = Owen and Rooney

The only English player I'd like to see play for Italy is A. Cole seen as Zambrotta plays RB for the NT.

**russe||** · 29-04-2006, 01:59 PM

Rooney is better than Owen.

Rio is a major concern, he has played poorly this season and seems to laid back and prone to mistakes.

However we have other good players that can play in the defence. John Terry and Ledley King have done very well when they have played for England. Carragher is good enough to play there, Sol Campbell too if he gets his form back. Also Rio on form can be a great player.

For me Rio looks shaky when the defence is playing poorly, Vidic and Silvestre played badly and that probably contributed to Rio's poor game.

At the back for England alongside Neville, Cole and Terry, Rio looks a different player.

**D-Kin** · 29-04-2006, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by russe||

Rooney is better than Owen.

As far as strikers go I think Owen is better (it's not a pop at Rooney I just don't consider him as a striker). Defoe, Crouch, Bent, Heskey and Vassell aren't anywhere near the same class as Owen.

**russe||** · 29-04-2006, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fabio

And I think Italy have the edge over England, this is how I see it:

Buffon > Robinson
Cannavaro and Nesta > Ferdinand and Terry
Zambrotta > Neville
Grosso < A. Cole
Totti > Lampard
Camoranesi < Beckham
Pirlo > Gerrard
Gattuso = J. Cole
Toni and Gilardino = Owen and Rooney

The only English player I'd like to see play for Italy is A. Cole seen as Zambrotta plays RB for the NT.

I never like comparing teams player for player, youi can usually swing it how you want by picking who you compare to who. I mean how can you compare a player like J.Cole to Gattuso?

IMO your rating are pretty good though.

Buffon is better than Robinson, at their best Rio and Terry are as good as Cannavaro and Nesta but I'll give you that one (mainly cos of Rio's form), I wouldn't want Zambrotta in the England team over Neville but I can understand how you wouldn't want to swap either.

I would say Gerrard is better than Pirlo and although Totti is better than Lampard like Italy in recent years he hasn't really performed as well as he could in the big championships.

Also for me Owen and Rooney > Toni and Gilardino.

**russe||** · 29-04-2006, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fabio

As far as strikers go I think Owen is better (it's not a pop at Rooney I just don't consider him as a striker). Defoe, Crouch, Bent, Heskey and Vassell aren't anywhere near the same class as Owen.

OK, I'm just used to having to defend Rooney to Italian fans *cough*Jager*cough*

You are right and the names you mention prove my point about the lack of depth we have up front.

**D-Kin** · 29-04-2006, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by russe||

I never like comparing teams player for player, youi can usually swing it how you want by picking who you compare to who. I mean how can you compare a player like J.Cole to Gattuso?

IMO your rating are pretty good though.

Buffon is better than Robinson, at their best Rio and Terry are as good as Cannavaro and Nesta but I'll give you that one (mainly cos of Rio's form), I wouldn't want Zambrotta in the England team over Neville but I can understand how you wouldn't want to swap either.

I would say Gerrard is better than Pirlo and although Totti is better than Lampard like Italy in recent years he hasn't really performed as well as he could in the big championships.

Also for me Owen and Rooney > Toni and Gilardino.

I only compared J. Cole with Gattuso because Italy don't play with wingers so those two ended up being matched up together (it wasn't intentional).

As for Toni and Gilardino I think you're underrating them. They've scored 55 goals between them in Serie A this season and they've also been performing well for Italy. I know Owen has been injured but him and Rooney must only have around 20 goals between them in the league. Plus, Toni by himself has scored 28 in the league which is basically a goal a game.

Z.Z · 29-04-2006, 02:15 PM

Early signs are that it isn't too bad an injury.

Anyway, we could be better, if Lampard was dropped and Gerrard given his position. And if Carragher or King took Rio's place.

**russe||** · 29-04-2006, 02:19 PM

Rooney has 16 league goals this season and despite his injury problems Owen has 7.

For me the players in both sides suit the teams and there are only a one or two players that would improve either side if they changed teams. Italy v England would be a great game between two evenly matched teams.

As for Toni and Gilardino maybe I am underrating them, I can't say I've seen too much of them especially when you consider how many times I've seen Owen and Rooney together. However Owen and Rooney are a very good partnership.

**russe||** · 29-04-2006, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Z.Z

Early signs are that it isn't too bad an injury.

Anyway, we could be better, if Lampard was dropped and Gerrard given his position. And if Carragher or King took Rio's place.

I agree Lampard and Gerrard jsut don't work as a midfield two. Dropping Lampard for King or Carrick would balance the team a lot better as well as giving us a top player to come off the bench if we need to change things.

**D-Kin** · 29-04-2006, 02:21 PM

Also remember the backup strikers we have including Del Piero, Cassano, Inzaghi, Lucarelli, Iaquinta and Vieri. Say what you want about Italy but we definately have options up front.