Vegans??

[Jager]

Veganism (also strict or pure vegetarianism) is a philosophy and lifestyle that seeks to exclude the use of animals for food, clothing, or any other purpose.[1][2] Vegans do not use or consume animal products of any kind.[3] The most common reasons for becoming a vegan are ethical commitment or moral convictions concerning animal rights, the environment, or human health, and spiritual or religious concerns.[4][5][2] Of particular concern are the practices involved in factory farming and animal testing, and the intensive use of land and other resources required for animal farming.

Various polls have reported vegans to be between 0.2%[4] and 1.3%[6] of the U.S. population, and between 0.25%[5] and 0.4%[7] of the UK population. The Times estimated in 2005 that there were 250,000 vegans in Great Britain.[7]

Vegan diets are a subset of vegetarian diets, which are credited with lowering the risk of colon cancer, heart attack, high blood cholesterol, high blood pressure, prostate cancer, and stroke.[8] However, vegan diets can be low in levels of calcium, iodine, and vitamins B12 and D. Vegans are therefore encouraged to plan their diet and take dietary supplements as appropriate.[9]

Veganism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Any thoughts on this? I could never be one, as I love my leather seats in my car or sofa.

[Podolski]

I couldn't be one. I don't see what's wrong with eating animals, but I would understand if they have a problem with the way they are being treated in the farmhouse or something. But if it is religious, God made tigers and stuff with sharp teeth so they could kill their prey, isn't that just as bad as killing it in a slaugther house?

[Jager]

I think eating less meat is probably a good idea. Too much is not good.

I respect their way of life, as long as they don't infringe on my ability to eat meat or use animal derived products.

[apetimberlake]

Originally Posted by The Hunter

I think eating less meat is probably a good idea. Too much is not good.

I respect their way of life, as long as they don't infringe on my ability to eat meat or use animal derived products.

You know its funny....
I couldnt do it..
I was a vegitarian for about 2 years and i couldnt do it anymore.
Its a really big commitment to be one...
Unless its for religious reasons or medical....It seems to be a phase that passes

[Jager]

You need protein, and its really hard to replace in your diet. And I can't be bothered to monitor what I eat or don't eat, or what is a suitable protein replacement, though I imagine it becomes second nature to those that have been doing for awhile.

I eat the classic mediterranean diet, and try to stay away from all processed foods if possible.

No sugary pop, or very little.

Though PETA's main goal is to stop the consumption of meat.

[Brandinho]

Originally Posted by The Hunter

Veganism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Any thoughts on this? I could never be one, as I love my leather seats in my car or sofa.

Vegitarianism is something that I dont mind and understand; but Vegans get ridiculous. I mean; refusing to drink milk or cheese products because it comes from a cow? Do they realize that BABY COWS drink that milk too? Does that make them inhumane too? Its stupid.

[Zaphod]

Originally Posted by Podolski

But if it is religious, God made tigers and stuff with sharp teeth so they could kill their prey, isn't that just as bad as killing it in a slaugther house?

No, it's not. Wild animals just go ahead and kill other animals for food. But the meat industry breeds animals (not the natural way either, but almost predominantly by artificial insemination) for the sole purpose of turning them into food. They wouldn't exist otherwise. I grew up in West Virginia near some of the biggest chicken farms in the U.S. and I've seen them first hand. Their entire lives, for the most part, are spent being tortured. They're kept in such close quarters that they often don't have room to turn around. They live in their own feces, often eating it along with their feed. Once they're ready for processing, they're dumped tightly packed onto a conveyor belt. A machine shackles their legs (at a rate of about 180 per minute, I understand) and hangs them upside down by one or two legs (which are often broken during the process). Their beaks are ripped off alive and they're dipped into an electrically charged bath water to stun them into senselessness. They move along a guide rail past a rotating blade that slits their throats without beheading them, then on to a human with a knife who slits the throats of those obviously still alive. But according to the USDA, almost 4 million chickens per year in the U.S. are still alive when they're dipped into scalding water to remove their feathers and die from burns or drowning. So I would say that eating free range meat is far more humane than eating commercially processed meat.

Originally Posted by The Hunter

You need protein, and its really hard to replace in your diet. And I can't be bothered to monitor what I eat or don't eat, or what is a suitable protein replacement, though I imagine it becomes second nature to those that have been doing for awhile.

I eat the classic mediterranean diet, and try to stay away from all processed foods if possible.

No sugary pop, or very little.

Though PETA's main goal is to stop the consumption of meat.

I've been a vegetarian for a long time for both health and conscience reasons. It's actually very easy to get the proteins you need. They used to think you had to combine different foods at the same meal, but it turns out that's not the case. If you eat grains (bread, rice, pasta), legumes and vegetables you've got it covered. It really is healthy though. I feel so much better than I ever did when I was eating meat,

I'm not too far from being a vegan, but I love cheese too much to give it up entirely. I try to stay away from the dairy products as much as possible though because I feel better without it.

I live just a few miles from PETA's international headquarters, which are here in Norfolk. They do a lot of great things (for instance, a mobile unit that roams the area to spay and neuter pets for low income families), but they do so many damned stupid things to attract attention and raise money that nobody knows about the really good things they do. I donated some money to them about a decade ago and they spent at least twice what I donated trying to get me to donate more. So I said the hell with them. I'm more of the SPCA guy.

[Jager]

I've been a vegetarian for a long time for both health and conscience reasons. It's actually very easy to get the proteins you need. They used to think you had to combine different foods at the same meal, but it turns out that's not the case. If you eat grains (bread, rice, pasta), legumes and vegetables you've got it covered. It really is healthy though. I feel so much better than I ever did when I was eating meat,

I'm not too far from being a vegan, but I love cheese too much to give it up entirely. I try to stay away from the dairy products as much as possible though because I feel better without it.

I live just a few miles from PETA's international headquarters, which are here in Norfolk. They do a lot of great things (for instance, a mobile unit that roams the area to spay and neuter pets for low income families), but they do so many damned stupid things to attract attention and raise money that nobody knows about the really good things they do. I donated some money to them about a decade ago and they spent at least twice what I donated trying to get me to donate more. So I said the hell with them. I'm more of the SPCA guy.

Fair enough, and I respect that. And you know, I don't know all the ins and outs of being a vegetarian. My comment was not to give criticism towards people who don't eat meat, but to discuss the subject.

And more to highlight the vegans, who take the whole thing to the extreme. But I respect that.

..as long as they respect me and what I believe.

Having said this, I'm a firm believe in green leafy vegetables. I eat a lot of radicchio, spinah and endive.....and I try to eat lean meat, when I chow down on meat.

So even I understand the benefits of being a vegetarian.


How long have you been one?

[Zaphod]

Originally Posted by The Hunter

Fair enough, and I respect that. And you know, I don't know all the ins and outs of being a vegetarian. My comment was not to give criticism towards people who don't eat meat, but to discuss the subject.

And more to highlight the vegans, who take the whole thing to the extreme. But I respect that.

..as long as they respect me and what I believe.

Having said this, I'm a firm believe in green leafy vegetables. I eat a lot of radicchio, spinah and endive.....and I try to eat lean meat, when I chow down on meat.

So even I understand the benefits of being a vegetarian.


How long have you been one?

Ah, no, I knew you weren't being critical of it or anything. I've been vegetarian since I was a teenager back in the 80s, so it's been a couple of decades.

I know there are a lot of benefits to that mediterranean diet. I've increasingly added the garlic and the olive oil to things I cook in recent years myself because of the health benefits (and because I love them). From what I understand, though, Europeans generally eat far less of the processed foods than Americans. There's a real benefit to eating things that are grown as locally and as naturally as possible -- and that goes for meats and dairy products as well. Sadly, the food supply here is pretty much controlled by Archer-Daniels-Midland and the rest of the corporate farming conglomerates and most of the food that's grown has been genetically manipulated.

[apetimberlake]

Originally Posted by Brandinho

Vegitarianism is something that I dont mind and understand; but Vegans get ridiculous. I mean; refusing to drink milk or cheese products because it comes from a cow? Do they realize that BABY COWS drink that milk too? Does that make them inhumane too? Its stupid.

I am pretty sure they dont drink milk because the production of milk is inhumain?

Not becuase its gross.

[Zaphod]

Originally Posted by apetimberlake

I am pretty sure they dont drink milk because the production of milk is inhumain?

Not becuase its gross.

Yeah, cows are treated inhumanely in the mass production of milk. It's not the same as the farmers in the old days just going out to the barn and milking their cow every morning. Vegans do have a point (although some of them actually think the dairy process is worse than the meat process, which I've never been able to understand).

Originally Posted by Brandinho

Vegitarianism is something that I dont mind and understand; but Vegans get ridiculous. I mean; refusing to drink milk or cheese products because it comes from a cow? Do they realize that BABY COWS drink that milk too? Does that make them inhumane too? Its stupid.

Well, baby humans drink milk from their mothers, but you don't find gallons of human milk for sale in the supermarket. It's kind of strange when you stop and think about it. Human milk is made for humans. Cow milk is made for cows. Yet human adults drink cow milk instead of human milk. Go figure.

On the other hand, if human milk was bottled and sold in supermarkets, I suppose there would be a long line of men wanting to latch onto one of those milking jobs.

[Jager]

Let me just add, that I feel we are eating way TOO much meat as a culture. And in this respect, I think this is very bad for the planet. I can't remember the exact ratio, but to make a pound of meat, you need so much land, and to grow actual food, you need less, but feed more..or something like that.

I would like to see us collectively eat less meat, treat the slaughter animals better, and I think we'll be healthier.

However I don't see this happening.........

BTW, that is bang on the milk thing, its not the consumption of milk, but the housing of the animals and how we treat them, but milk cows are treated not too bad from my limited observation.

[Blaugrana]

Originally Posted by The Hunter

I would like to see us collectively eat less meat, treat the slaughter animals better, and I think we'll be healthier.

Definitely.

Thanks for all the info Zaphod, i've always had much respect for vegetarians. I'm from Holland but i've never heard nor read much about those processes, when they slaughter chickens etc.. But perhaps this is the reason:

Originally Posted by Zaphod

From what I understand, though, Europeans generally eat far less of the processed foods than Americans.

With other words; animals are treaten better in Europe? Maybe that's why i don't hear much complaining (while there's even a party for animals in our government, around 2% of the people voted for them). I only hear them talk about the small cages where chickens live in, not the way they get slaughtered or anything

[Zaphod]

Originally Posted by The Hunter

Let me just add, that I feel we are eating way TOO much meat as a culture. And in this respect, I think this is very bad for the planet. I can't remember the exact ratio, but to make a pound of meat, you need so much land, and to grow actual food, you need less, but feed more..or something like that.

I would like to see us collectively eat less meat, treat the slaughter animals better, and I think we'll be healthier.

However I don't see this happening.........

BTW, that is bang on the milk thing, its not the consumption of milk, but the housing of the animals and how we treat them, but milk cows are treated not too bad from my limited observation.

I couldn't agree more. Raising animals for slaughter uses not only a lot more land than farming, but also becomes a huge drain on the water supply. It's created big drought problems in the western U.S. I know that you're never going to get everyone to stop eating meat (not without centuries of cultural change anyway), but people need to be more aware of the problems caused by mass meat production (including the health risks of consumption) and try to make an effort to eat meat and dairy products that are locally produced by small farmers (it would be good for them too, rather than contributing to the huge farming companies' corporate profits).

Originally Posted by Blaugrana

Definitely.

Thanks for all the info Zaphod, i've always had much respect for vegetarians. I'm from Holland but i've never heard nor read much about those processes, when they slaughter chickens etc.. But perhaps this is the reason:

With other words; animals are treaten better in Europe? Maybe that's why i don't hear much complaining (while there's even a party for animals in our government, around 2% of the people voted for them). I only hear them talk about the small cages where chickens live in, not the way they get slaughtered or anything

You're very, very welcome. Most people don't give any thought to what happens to the animals that end up on their tables (and probably don't want to think about it). But it would really help if people consumed as many locally and humanely produced products as possible.

And yes, it's my understanding that the laws governing the raising of animals for slaughter and dairy in most European countries are far more strict than in the U.S. where corporate profits always trump public health.

[Podolski]

Originally Posted by Zaphod

No, it's not. Wild animals just go ahead and k