Roma Season Review: What went wrong?

[Jager]

Originally Posted by azzurri

Serie A/ L'Osservatorio sugli errori arbitrali: 52% di partite falsate. Milan e Juve penalizzatissime - Affaritaliani.it

Wait till the result's for the full season come out. Although labeling a debatable call right or wrong is partly a matter of opinion, the fact remains that more points were gained from debatable calls than any other year, including during Moggi's era. Furthermore, the fact 1 team were by quite a margin the biggest beneficiary proves something is up.

Again, I have first hand experience otherwise. Close to thirty years experience watching this game.

You can call it like you want, but to say that Juventus FC has not had shadey calls is beyond ridiculous.

For example...In the early eighties they won a scudetto which I feel was robbed from Roma.

Roma had the likes of Bruno Conti and Falcoa, and they were by far the most entertaining and dangerous team in Serie A, however they lost it due to a non sense offside call, which a had a goal called back. And when I say the call was crap it WAS crap.

Yet I was told and the Romanista were told that it was just how it was. And that is just one example. However we suck it up and continue to play it.

I personally think its karma. Thirty years of Juve and Milan, and now inter and Roma are on top. I hope it stays that way for a bit anyways, and I hope if Inter can't win it again, that Roma do.

But I'm sure things will revert back to how they "were", and Juve/Milan will be ruling Serie A like an iron fist, and everything that goes there way is well deserved and merited.

Every FK or PK is a result of constant pressure and attack, not because of a bad officiating error.

You see, I have personal experience behind me, I don't need somebody to tell me otherwise to what I have seen or saw.

[azzurri]

You can call it like you want, but to say that Juventus FC has not had shadey calls is beyond ridiculous.

I never said that. Juve never had as many shady call's in 1 season as Inter have had over the past 2 season's, setting consecutive records.

Originally Posted by Jager

Again, I have first hand experience otherwise. Close to thirty years experience watching this game.

But I'm sure things will revert back to how they "were", and Juve/Milan will be ruling Serie A like an iron fist, and everything that goes there way is well deserved and merited.

You see, I have personal experience behind me, I don't need somebody to tell me otherwise to what I have seen or saw.

Since u like to brag about how long u have been watching calcio, I'm going to go back even further than the calciogate non-sense to show that Inter are more corrupt than Juve could ever imagine.

A) Y were Inter allowed to stay in serie a after finishing last in the 1922 season? Inter's website conveniently skips over that year. I wonder y? 3rd last Venezia took Inter's place.

B) Y were Inter allowed to play a scudetto deciding match in 1910 against a bunch of youngsters? That was your 1st scudetto btw.

C) Ferruccio Mazzola? You old enough to remember him? He was a member of the "great" Inter of the 1960's. Here is an excerpt from his book:

"I myself experienced these practices that footballers had to go through. I saw the trainer Helenio Herrera (Inter coach) giving out pills to put under your tongue. He tried them out on the reserves (I was often one of these) and then he also gave them to the team members. Some took them, others spat them out secretly. It was my brother Sandro who said: if you don’t want to take it go to the bathroom and throw it away. That’s what lots did. However, then Herrera realised that we spat them out and so he started to dissolve them in coffee. From then on “Herrera’s coffee” became one of Inter’s practices.”

D) In case u try to deny the above, keep in mind Inter player's tested positive for drug use in the 1960's, which confirms his statement. Inter were the 1st club in Italy to be caught doping.

E) In case u still try and deny "C" and "D", many player's from the Inter team of the 1960's died relatively young, from illnesses linked to drug use (like tumors).

F) Continuing on Inter's long history of drug use, Georgatos and Kallon were your last 2 player found using them. Thats not that long ago.

G) Drug use is still present today. Jager, y dont u update all the ppl on TS on the latest phone taps scandal? U know, the one the Italian police conducted against organized crime, but surprisingly Inter Milan's name came up when your coach and numerous players were caught on the phone using coded messages with a convicted murderer and known mafioso.

H) The above point, Domenico Brescia is the mafioso in question. He is Inter Milan's tailor.

I) Lets assume that "F" and "G" are just meaningless conversations. The fact remains your club employed a convicted murderer and mafioso. Not exactly the mark of an innocent club like Moratti like's to portray.

J) Back to the 1960's, that was your last European success. Ask any Liverpool fan what happened.

K) Inter got away with a fine for forging Recoba's passport, a charge they denied, but admitted years later in a civil court.

L) Inter forged the health insurances on player's contract and got away with a fine.

M) Continuing with the above, you committed accounting fraud to balance your book's so u could register in serie a. B4 u deny that, keep in mind that Inter were never cleared of those charges, instead the law was changed. In the words of Judge Paola Di Lorenzo who worked on the case "Accounting fraud is not illegal as it does not alter the course of a season"

N) Calciopoli was based on wiretaps from Telecom Italia, who's main investor's and board member mirror that of Inter Milan. They are parent company's, like Juve is to FIAT. More specificially, Inter tapped another club's phones (as well as hundred's of other's, that scandal isn't finished yet)

O) Your last great striker, Vieri, was rewarded for all his years of loyal service by having his phone tapped by Inter Milan.

P) Interista like to blast Moggi for tapping up player's. Look no futher than last summer. Milan announced a deal with Suazo, and they had a deal agreed with Cagliari. However, Suazo negotiated terms with Inter b4 Cagliari ever gave permission to Inter to speak to their player. Inter were caught red handed and nothing happened.

Q) Balotelli is under 18, and hasn't received his Italian paper's yet. He shouldn't be allowed to play in serie a.

Juve never forced their player's to do drugs, Juve never cheated their way out of relegation, Juve never forged passports (since they field Italian players, unlike Inter), Juve never cooked their book's, Juve never tapped another club's phones, Juve never put 1 of its directors in the FIGC to bend over backwards to get a club relegated, Juve never had to cheat to win the CL, and Juve dont give murderers a job at the club.

The only thing Inter and Juve have in common is shady call's, and even than, as I have proven with stats, Inter have got far more than any year Moggi was in charge.

Bottom line, quit hiding behind Juve and a bogus scandal. Inter are more corrupt than Juve, and they always have been. Quit playing the victim routine because it's bullshit.

[Forza_Roma]

Great post Azzurri...i'm not familiar with many of the historical comments, but great overall report.

What ever happened to the Vieri situation? Didn't he sue for like 20 million?

Also, Roma had a deal for Suazo before Milan and Inter were involved, but got screwed over.

[azzurri]

Jager will chalk it up to Juventini conspiracy theories even though alot of it is true (the doping, the passports, the accounting fraud, the phone taps, giving murderer's job's). Juve are saints next to Inter. All they have is a bunch of questionable calls (which Juventini can match call for call against Inter), and a bogus scandal.

I never denied Juve receiving shady call's, but for the 04/05, 05/06, season's, those titles belong to Juventus. There were a few incidents, but not nearly as many as the past 2 season's. Not to mention an Inter director leading the scandal said both those season's were legit. As for all the other season's b4 the 90's, I doubt they were as clouded as these past 2 seasons.

Moratti's comment's yesterday disgust me. He is laying claim to even more titles. He wont get fined like Totti though.

[D-Kin]

Originally Posted by azzurri

Since u like to brag about how long u have been watching calcio, I'm going to go back even further than the calciogate non-sense to show that Inter are more corrupt than Juve could ever imagine.

A) Y were Inter allowed to stay in serie a after finishing last in the 1922 season? Inter's website conveniently skips over that year. I wonder y? 3rd last Venezia took Inter's place.

B) Y were Inter allowed to play a scudetto deciding match in 1910 against a bunch of youngsters? That was your 1st scudetto btw.

C) Ferruccio Mazzola? You old enough to remember him? He was a member of the "great" Inter of the 1960's. Here is an excerpt from his book:

"I myself experienced these practices that footballers had to go through. I saw the trainer Helenio Herrera (Inter coach) giving out pills to put under your tongue. He tried them out on the reserves (I was often one of these) and then he also gave them to the team members. Some took them, others spat them out secretly. It was my brother Sandro who said: if you don’t want to take it go to the bathroom and throw it away. That’s what lots did. However, then Herrera realised that we spat them out and so he started to dissolve them in coffee. From then on “Herrera’s coffee” became one of Inter’s practices.”

D) In case u try to deny the above, keep in mind Inter player's tested positive for drug use in the 1960's, which confirms his statement. Inter were the 1st club in Italy to be caught doping.

E) In case u still try and deny "C" and "D", many player's from the Inter team of the 1960's died relatively young, from illnesses linked to drug use (like tumors).

F) Continuing on Inter's long history of drug use, Georgatos and Kallon were your last 2 player found using them. Thats not that long ago.

G) Drug use is still present today. Jager, y dont u update all the ppl on TS on the latest phone taps scandal? U know, the one the Italian police conducted against organized crime, but surprisingly Inter Milan's name came up when your coach and numerous players were caught on the phone using coded messages with a convicted murderer and known mafioso.

H) The above point, Domenico Brescia is the mafioso in question. He is Inter Milan's tailor.

I) Lets assume that "F" and "G" are just meaningless conversations. The fact remains your club employed a convicted murderer and mafioso. Not exactly the mark of an innocent club like Moratti like's to portray.

J) Back to the 1960's, that was your last European success. Ask any Liverpool fan what happened.

K) Inter got away with a fine for forging Recoba's passport, a charge they denied, but admitted years later in a civil court.

L) Inter forged the health insurances on player's contract and got away with a fine.

M) Continuing with the above, you committed accounting fraud to balance your book's so u could register in serie a. B4 u deny that, keep in mind that Inter were never cleared of those charges, instead the law was changed. In the words of Judge Paola Di Lorenzo who worked on the case "Accounting fraud is not illegal as it does not alter the course of a season"

N) Calciopoli was based on wiretaps from Telecom Italia, who's main investor's and board member mirror that of Inter Milan. They are parent company's, like Juve is to FIAT. More specificially, Inter tapped another club's phones (as well as hundred's of other's, that scandal isn't finished yet)

O) Your last great striker, Vieri, was rewarded for all his years of loyal service by having his phone tapped by Inter Milan.

P) Interista like to blast Moggi for tapping up player's. Look no futher than last summer. Milan announced a deal with Suazo, and they had a deal agreed with Cagliari. However, Suazo negotiated terms with Inter b4 Cagliari ever gave permission to Inter to speak to their player. Inter were caught red handed and nothing happened.

Q) Balotelli is under 18, and hasn't received his Italian paper's yet. He shouldn't be allowed to play in serie a.

Juve never forced their player's to do drugs, Juve never cheated their way out of relegation, Juve never forged passports (since they field Italian players, unlike Inter), Juve never cooked their book's, Juve never tapped another club's phones, Juve never put 1 of its directors in the FIGC to bend over backwards to get a club relegated, Juve never had to cheat to win the CL, and Juve dont give murderers a job at the club.

The only thing Inter and Juve have in common is shady call's, and even than, as I have proven with stats, Inter have got far more than any year Moggi was in charge.

Bottom line, quit hiding behind Juve and a bogus scandal. Inter are more corrupt than Juve, and they always have been. Quit playing the victim routine because it's bullshit.

You're a fucking legend!

Most of this I knew but there was a couple of facts I hadn't heard before.

Quality.

[azzurri]

It's from bits and pieces I have collected over the past 2 years. It's not my research. All those European night's off, and a season in serie b, and constant taunting from Inter fans caused all that dirt to resurface.

Giu le Mani dalla Juve, the Juve shareholder's group who are continuing to fight the injustices of calciopoli in court, are most likely responsible for the info.

[Jager]

Azzurri gets most of his conspiracy thoughts from the pro Juve sites that he visits. Then he comes here and posts them as if they are fact.

Most of these things have been proven to be false. However Azzurri and most disgruntled Juventino pick and choose on what they want to post or not.

And to be totally honest, we have one anti-Inter thread in the Juve forum, there is no need to drag this one into that area also.

However what truely bothers me, is that I'm actually from Italy, I have watched matches since 1976, yet that counts for nothing. Only the crap you pick off your Juve forums is the truth.

Get over it.

Some Juventino on the net have taken upon themselves to make the club appear pure and without falt.

However we know better. And the club is much better off now without the tyrant Moggi in charge. There are too many testimonials against the man, that smart Serie A fans know better who the real culprit of many years was.

Its karma baby, karma!

[Jager]

Originally Posted by D-Kin

You're a fucking legend!

Most of this I knew but there was a couple of facts I hadn't heard before.

Quality.

Come on Joel, Azzurri gets this stuff from non credible pro Juve sites. What do you expect?

Don't believe everything you read, ONE way or the other.

[azzurri]

Jager, u didn't tackle any of points.

- Your club were fined for all the thing's I said; fact.
- Kallon and Georgatos tested positive, and there was no further investigation; fact (instead they wasted 8 years on Juve only to find nothing. Just goes to show who runs the FIGC)
- Your players were caught doping in the 60's; fact.
- Your club do employ convicted murderer's/mafioso; fact (btw, Inter's rebuttal was not denial, but that he was hired because of the convienence of his location).
- Your club did finish last in 1922 and did not get relegated; fact.
- Inter forged Recoba's passport; fact (they admitted it themselves FFS)
- Inter were never cleared of the accounting fraud charges, instead the law was changed to make it legal; fact. (extremely unfair to the numerous club's throughout Italy who get relegated every yr because their books aren't balanced)
- Telecom Italia tapped Juve's phone; fact.

Jager, your response is wrong because all the bulleted points above are established, with various official and legitimate sources to back them up. U constantly say its bullshit from Juve forum's, when u can go to the FIGC's website and download all the verdict's for yourself. Court's keep record's of everything, and considering all the appeals, there is a long list of documentation which back's up the above. You simply cannot argue against its legitimacy with your own opinion.

[D-Kin]

Originally Posted by Jager

Come on Joel, Azzurri gets this stuff from non credible pro Juve sites. What do you expect?

Don't believe everything you read, ONE way or the other.

Nick I can see it from your point of view, really I can. Inter have been labeled and now they're taking a lot of critisism. But come on, the vast majority of what azzurri wrote is proven fact and you can't deny it. Inter are far from the most honest club in the country.

[dukeofdavinci]

mmmhere we are back to the refs thing again.well might as well enjoy it.no offense guys again.

[Jager]

Originally Posted by azzurri

Jager, u didn't tackle any of points.

- Your club were fined for all the thing's I said; fact.
- Kallon and Georgatos tested positive, and there was no further investigation; fact (instead they wasted 8 years on Juve only to find nothing. Just goes to show who runs the FIGC)
- Your players were caught doping in the 60's; fact.
- Your club do employ convicted murderer's/mafioso; fact (btw, Inter's rebuttal was not denial, but that he was hired because of the convienence of his location).
- Your club did finish last in 1922 and did not get relegated; fact.
- Inter forged Recoba's passport; fact (they admitted it themselves FFS)
- Inter were never cleared of the accounting fraud charges, instead the law was changed to make it legal; fact. (extremely unfair to the numerous club's throughout Italy who get relegated every yr because their books aren't balanced)
- Telecom Italia tapped Juve's phone; fact.

Jager, your response is wrong because all the bulleted points above are established, with various official and legitimate sources to back them up. U constantly say its bullshit from Juve forum's, when u can go to the FIGC's website and download all the verdict's for yourself. Court's keep record's of everything, and considering all the appeals, there is a long list of documentation which back's up the above. You simply cannot argue against its legitimacy with your own opinion.

I don't have to tackle anything. We have talked about this many, many times. You know how I feel about it.


You give your opinion on it, I give mine.

Now lets give this thread back to the Romanista. You have your own bitch thread as I recall.

Actually, since your a supermod, why don't you clean this up. Its completely off topic and not relevant to the original post.

Cheers.

[Jager]

Originally Posted by D-Kin

Nick I can see it from your point of view, really I can. Inter have been labeled and now they're taking a lot of critisism. But come on, the vast majority of what azzurri wrote is proven fact and you can't deny it. Inter are far from the most honest club in the country.

The problem with Nick(Azzurri) is that he and a small minority have created an elaborate tale of how everything went.

Like come on Joel?!?!? We tricked the whole league in playing Mario Balotelli????? It was our plan to field a 17 year old??? That is just one point of many.

I never ever said that Inter were the most honest team, nor did I say that Juve was dishonest. Actually I never supported the Serie B thing. However I NEVER EVER like Luciano Moggi, and to me he is one shadey character, no matter how you and others try to cherry coat him.

Having said that, many Italian businessman are like that, and that is how she goes or how you get ahead in Italy. Sad but true.


As for Patron Moratti......I'm sorry, but he is not clever to pull all the things that he supposedly done. Face it Joel, regardless of circumstance, Inter are the best team by a little bit. Roma are close though.

Milan is old.

Juve is rebuilding.