What's going on with Georgia and Russia?

[aurel]

CNN says that Georgia says that Russia's trying to 'crush democracy' and that Russia says that it's protecting itself from Georgia's 'ethnic cleansing'.


Here's more info from different sources.
Reuters - Russia sends forces into Georgian rebel conflict
Russia, Georgia seek control of South Ossetia capital | U.S. | Reuters

CNN - Georgia's 'under attack' as Russian tanks roll in
Fighting with Russia spreads to cities across Georgia - CNN.com

BBC - Russian tanks enter South Ossetia
BBC NEWS | Europe | Russian tanks enter South Ossetia

[azzurri]

South Ossetia is a break away province, and Georgia claim it's a part of their territory. South Ossetia has a population of only 70,000.

There was clashes between South Ossetia and Georgia on the border in the past week, both sides saying they were retaliatory. Georgia stepped it up on Friday and invaded, capturing the South Ossetia capital of Tskhinvali, although apparently it has been retaken once Russia stepped in. Russian planes have bombed targets in Georgia. Airfields, ports, the usual. Georgia claims they have shot down 6 Russia planes, but Russia has only stated 2 were lost.

Georgia is now recalling 2000 of their troops from Iraq and have declared a of state of war.
Georgia declares 'state of war' as Russian bombs fall - Yahoo! News


Hopefully this comes to an end. Both sides are claiming civilian casualties already and it will only get worse.

[Mr Brightside]

Surely Russia would crush Georgia if it escalated ?

[azzurri]

Russian navy has set up a blockade off Georgia's coast (Black Sea). Ukraine arent pleased that Russia used a base in the Ukraine to launch a blockade against one of its allies, and are threatening to not allow Russian ships to return (they have already sunk 1 Georgian missile boat).
Russian navy arrives at Georgia sea border-media | Reuters

[azzurri]

TBILISI, Aug 10 (Reuters) - Russia has started an operation to storm the Georgian-controlled Kodori gorge in Georgia's breakaway region of Abkhazia, the Georgian Interior Ministry said on Sunday.

Separatist authorities in Abkhazia said earlier they had sent 1,000 troops to the gorge, which Georgian forces control as a strategic foothold in the breakaway Black Sea territory.

Georgia says Russia has sent troops and artillery into Abkhazia.

"They have started the operation to storm Kodori gorge," said Interior Ministry spokesman Shota Utiashvili. Asked who was behind the operation, he replied: "The Russian army."

The United Nations, which has international monitors in the area, had warned of a possible second front opening in the Georgia-Russia conflict, with Russia already pushing Georgian forces from breakaway South Ossetia.

Georgia has police stationed in the gorge, protecting a parallel pro-Tbilisi Abkhazian government.

"The operation has started," said government spokesman Raul Kiria. "The evacuation of residents is under way. Our government officials are at their posts."

Like South Ossetia, Abkhazia broke away for Georgian control in the early 1990s.

Russia in operation to storm Abkhazia gorge-Tbilisi | Reuters

Map of the conflict:

[azzurri]

From all reports, Russia has gained complete control over South Ossetia. They are still bombing targets inside Georgia and have already opened up a 2nd front in Abkhazia.

Georgia is a strategic ally for the west. The Americans and Israeli's have been training their military for the past few years. I dont think the U.S/Nato will get involved, but they wont allow Russia to instill a new government in Georgia, and this is y.
Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan pipeline - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[azzurri]

Russian forces have now moved into Georgia, both from Abkazia and from South Ossetia. This is a serious escalation. Defending South Ossetia is 1 thing, capturing Georgian territory is another.
Russia opens new front, drives deeper into Georgia - Yahoo! News

Bush:

"Russia has invaded a sovereign neighboring state and threatens a democratic government elected by its people. Such an action is unacceptable in the 21st century,"

"I am deeply concerned by reports that Russian troops have moved beyond the zone of conflict, attacked the Georgian town of Gori and are threatening Georgia's capital of Tbilisi," he said after returning from a trip to China for the Olympics.

"There is evidence that Russian forces may soon begin bombing the civilian airport in the capital city. If these reports are accurate, these Russian actions would represent a dramatic and brutal escalation of the conflict in Georgia."

"Russia's government must respect Georgia's territorial integrity and sovereignty. The Russian government must reverse the course that it appears to be on and accept this peace agreement as a first step toward resolving this conflict," Bush said.

"Russia's actions this week have raised serious questions about its intentions in Georgia and the region. These actions have substantially damaged Russia's standing in the world," he said. "And these actions jeopardize Russia's relations with the United States and Europe. It is time for Russia to be true to its word and to act to end this crisis."

Bush tells Russia to reverse course in Georgia | U.S. | Reuters

[azzurri]

Russian President Dmitry Medvedev has ordered an end to military operations against Georgia, the Kremlin says.

He told officials that the safety of Russian citizens and peacekeepers in South Ossetia had been restored.

Russia also backed an EU plan to end the five-day-old conflict. Envoys will now try to get Georgian approval.

Each side continues to accuse the other of breaking ceasefire accords, and analysts warn that the two remain far apart on a number of issues.

US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said it was vital that all sides cease fire, adding that Russian military operations "really do now need to stop because calm needs to be restored".

The conflict began overnight last Thursday, when Russia responded to Georgian military action in South Ossetia.

Russia received heavy criticism on Monday after its troops pushed on from the secessionist territories of Abkhazia and South Ossetia towards the town of Gori in central Georgia, and into Senaki in the west.

On Tuesday morning there were more reports of fighting near Gori, but witnesses later said that Russian troops appeared to have pulled back from both towns.

French President Nicolas Sarkozy, in his current role as EU president, held talks with Mr Medvedev in Moscow for most of the day.

In a joint news conference, they said a six-point peace plan had been agreed by Russia and would now be taken to Georgia.

The deal included a pledge to pull troops on both sides back to their pre-conflict positions, and a plan to begin international discussions about the future status of South Ossetia and Abkhazia.

If Georgia agrees to the plan, Mr Medvedev said the "path to a gradual normalisation" in South Ossetia was open.

But during the same press conference, Mr Medvedev called Georgian troops "lunatics" and accused Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili of lying over a previous ceasefire agreement.

And just hours earlier, tens of thousands of Georgians gathered in Tbilisi's main square to hear Mr Saakashvili claim that Russia was continuing its "ruthless, heartless destruction" of Georgian citizens.

Neither side's claims could be verified, but analysts point out that the inflamed rhetoric signifies how far away from an agreement they are.

In other developments:

• Nato said Russia's withdrawal announcement was "not enough" and that it deplored the "disproportionate" force used by Moscow.

• President Saakashvili said Georgia would leave the Commonwealth of Independent States (CIS) - a group which includes most of the former Soviet republics.

• He also announced that Russian peacekeepers in Georgia's other breakaway region, Abkhazia, would now be regarded as an occupying army - ending an agreement in place since 1994.

• Separatist rebels continued to fight against Georgian troops in the Kodori Gorge region of Abkhazia - the only area of Abkhazia still under Georgian military control.

• British oil firm BP closed a key pipeline that runs through Georgia.

According to a Kremlin statement, Mr Medvedev told his defence minister and chief of staff that "the goal has been attained".

"I've decided to finish the operation to force the Georgian authorities to peace. The safety of our peacekeeping forces and civilian population has been restored," he said.

But Mr Medvedev warned that Russia would not tolerate any further Georgian military activity in South Ossetia, saying: "Should centres of resistance or other aggressive attempts arise, you must take the decision to destroy them."

Georgia also remained sceptical, the country's prime minister telling Reuters that troops would remain "mobilised... ready for anything" until a binding agreement was signed between the two countries.

The Russian move followed strong comments from US President George W Bush, in which he spoke directly of concerns that Russia was planning to topple Georgia's pro-Western president.

"Russia has invaded a sovereign neighbouring state and threatens a democratic government elected by its people," he said.

"Such an action is unacceptable in the 21st Century."

France's president says the ceasefire is good news

The BBC's diplomatic correspondent Bridget Kendall says Mr Medvedev's announcement must be seen in the light of the US president's words.

President Bush's language was unusually blunt, she says, and if Russia cares about its relations with the US and Europe, it might have been given pause for thought.

The five-day-old conflict began late on 7 August when Georgian forces bombarded South Ossetia, where a majority of people hold Russian passports.

Russia quickly became involved, bombing targets throughout Georgia and sending troops in to recapture South Ossetia.

Some 100,000 people are estimated to have been displaced by the conflict.

BBC NEWS | Europe | Russia 'ends Georgia operation'

[Trim]

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Crazy!

[Jager]

From my limited perspective on the matter, Georgia started this shit, and Russia is finishing it. Simple as that.

What I find completely hilarious is hearing Condaleeza Rice complain about Russia's aggression and the fact that they didn't get permission to do this.

What a hyprocrit the US is? Do they think we are that stupid?

Russia is looking after its own interests as is the US in Afghanistan or Iraq. They just needed an excuse, and Georgia gave them one. I'm sure secretly, the Americans are berating Georgian leaders for their stupidity in the manner.

It was only a matter of time before the big "bear" would wake up and start flexing its muscle.

Now I hear the Americans are putting missles in Poland in retaliation.

In the end, we all know that the Russians are going to spend more on its defense, and China will do the same.

[sinoy1]

Didnt the US train Georgian soldiers in Army operations in a way to protect themselves from Russia?I cant recall where I read it from but it was a news report.Freakishly hypocritical of Condoleeza though.

[Jager]

The Russians are not tactically deficent to the Americans. They might have shittier equipment, but tactically I think they can hold their own. The problem here is that Russia is not letting America have any more "puppet" countries on their border. They have said enough is a enough. The Americans wouldn't tolerate Mexico being invaded by Russia or become a Russian Ally, and Russia is looking after their own interests.

But I say it again, from what I read, Georgia started this by bombing that breakaway province. Russia just escalated it to a level that any good "bully" would do. The Americans would....

[azzurri]

Originally Posted by Jager

From my limited perspective on the matter, Georgia started this shit, and Russia is finishing it. Simple as that.

I'm not sure anymore. Russia held a very large military excersice in the region less than a month b4 it kicked off, and it involved the exact same unit that would later enter Georgia. A little to coincidental for my liking, and it certainly gives weight to Georgian leaders who say they invaded because of increased attacks from S.Ossetia. It's possible that Russia were planning to increase their military presence in S.Ossetia and Abkhazia all along. Provoking Georgia into attacking S.Ossetia so they have a legit reason to step in.
EurasiaNet Eurasia Insight - Did Russia Plan Its War In Georgia?

Considering Russia stated many times they would defend S.Ossetia if Georgia attacked, and considering Georgia are well aware they dont stand a chance against Russia, y would Georgia attack unless they really needed to?

What I find completely hilarious is hearing Condaleeza Rice complain about Russia's aggression and the fact that they didn't get permission to do this.

What a hyprocrit the US is? Do they think we are that stupid?

Russia is looking after its own interests as is the US in Afghanistan or Iraq. They just needed an excuse, and Georgia gave them one. I'm sure secretly, the Americans are berating Georgian leaders for their stupidity in the manner.

It was only a matter of time before the big "bear" would wake up and start flexing its muscle.

Although they will never admit it, America certainly knew Georgia was going to invade S. Ossetia. Along with the Israeli's, there are numerous American military advisor's in Georgia. Not to mention their spy satellites would have picked up Georgian forces amassing at the border.

Than y didn't the U.S stop Georgia? That's when things become interesting when u consider U.S actions in the region (pushing for Ukraine and Georgia into NATO, BMD in Poland/Czech Republic, Iran nuclear issue, etc).

Now I hear the Americans are putting missles in Poland in retaliation.

In the end, we all know that the Russians are going to spend more on its defense, and China will do the same.

The American missiles in Poland (along with the radar in Czech Republic), has been on the cards for a while, long before this conflict. The Americans claim it's to defend against ballistic missiles from nations like N.Korea, Iran, etc, except none of them have the capability to strike as far as the U.S, yet. Than it must be to contain Russia, but they already have warheads designed to maneuver past American misslie defense systems. I dont c the point, as all it does it further piss off Russia and forces them to take measures of their own.