Racial Profiling?

[Jager]

Originally Posted by sinoy1

And in my area its the white adolescents who go around in their mom's car breaking windows and beating up folks who are walking on their sidewalks....Does that mean every white person should be checked out?God forbid that would be a field day for journalists....no they wont.Would you like to know why...Once more Government tactic to instill fear in the public and get voted in.

Again.Its your income class that determines the crime rates.You'll notice that its substantially higher for the lower bracket to cause more crime then the higher one.Despite my little monologue up there.

You might not have meant to come off as so arrogant or egotistical but it sure as hell seemed so.

This is not always the case. Actually in my area, east indians are very well off, yet they gravitate towards gangs..why? I have no idea.

Yes, I do believe that social status does eqaute to crime or being involved in it. And in America, the blacks are the lowest income earners, so this could explain it also. And before you ask, Asian or orientals are the highest income earners in the US...don't have the stats for Canada unfortunately.

[G-R87]

Originally Posted by Jager

If Italians in my area were responsible for most of the crime, then I would agree with it. Simple as that.

You keep on bringing up this black issue. Very sorry to hear this.

However since you bring it up. Blacks in North America do the vast amount of the pety crime. Are more prone to be in a gang and more prone to murder each other, than an Asian, white or even muslim.

So in response to this, local law enforcement target them, especially when you have groups. Its the chicken and egg theory I guess.

Not to turn this into a "black" issue or muslim issue, so I will use "group".

When you have a group that is committing the vast majority of the crime, how do you fight it?

All I'm hearing is that its not right.

The arguement you make is old fashioned and wrong.

You say 'target' a group who are 'prone' to certain crimes, well there you go! That is my point, since when are you automatically prone simple beacuse of your race? Isn't that a racist presumption to assume that a certain group is automatically affiliated with a certain crime?!

So you say that it is right to monitor a 'group' because of the so called likelyhood of a crime...well it's obvious to me that when you monitor a specific group then you are bound to see crimes happen in that area; If you watch a black district due to suspicion of Theft then as soon as a single theft happens you will think that it works. How about you monitor all 'groups' and i promise you that the reality is far less convenient. Of course you will catch people if you monitor them so religiously, You can monitor ANY group and get what you want.

I see that you think things like 'If Blacks are more likely to commit crime then keep an eye on the blacks' but this is dated. This is incorrect. By applying this mentality then you are automatically prosecuting a race before they've even done anything. Don't you see? Rather that profile a specific race based on false statistics, why not profile everyone and you will find that the issues are much more widespread than in a specific racial group/area.

Don't you see that by focusing on one group you are turning away from another? If you focus on Blacks, how will you know what crimes whites are 'prone' to commit? This unfortuately happens and that is why I respect those who agree and have experienced similar circumstances. I'maffraid that you are commenting on something that you only know about through what sources tell you, not first hane experience. Of course the government will say that 'Asians are more prone to....' or 'Blacks are more prone to...' or whatever because they are the minority; They monitor them unfairly...I wish you experienced yourself, then you would know what I mean. Unfortunately, you buy into everything the government says, so you are made ignorant to the reality of these issues(not your fault...just disappointing).

It's way too easy to 'point the finger', Jager.

[russe||]

I think it is entirely sensible. Your race or creed has an impact on who you are.

In the same way you can look at certain crimes and define the likely age and/or gender of the criminal/perpetrator, in many instances you can define a likely ethnic group/community the person is from.

However police need to be careful, while it is sensible to perhaps keep a closer eye on the young, bearded Arab man with a heavy rucksack and shifty eyes; but paying particularly close attention to every Arab boarding an aeroplane is unfair, and counter productive.

[Jager]

Originally Posted by matthew

The arguement you make is old fashioned and wrong.

You say 'target' a group who are 'prone' to certain crimes, well there you go! That is my point, since when are you automatically prone simple beacuse of your race? Isn't that a racist presumption to assume that a certain group is automatically affiliated with a certain crime?!

So you say that it is right to monitor a 'group' because of the so called likelyhood of a crime...well it's obvious to me that when you monitor a specific group then you are bound to see crimes happen in that area; If you watch a black district due to suspicion of Theft then as soon as a single theft happens you will think that it works. How about you monitor all 'groups' and i promise you that the reality is far less convenient. Of course you will catch people if you monitor them so religiously, You can monitor ANY group and get what you want.

I see that you think things like 'If Blacks are more likely to commit crime then keep an eye on the blacks' but this is dated. This is incorrect. By applying this mentality then you are automatically prosecuting a race before they've even done anything. Don't you see? Rather that profile a specific race based on false statistics, why not profile everyone and you will find that the issues are much more widespread than in a specific racial group/area.

Don't you see that by focusing on one group you are turning away from another? If you focus on Blacks, how will you know what crimes whites are 'prone' to commit? This unfortuately happens and that is why I respect those who agree and have experienced similar circumstances. I'maffraid that you are commenting on something that you only know about through what sources tell you, not first hane experience. Of course the government will say that 'Asians are more prone to....' or 'Blacks are more prone to...' or whatever because they are the minority; They monitor them unfairly...I wish you experienced yourself, then you would know what I mean. Unfortunately, you buy into everything the government says, so you are made ignorant to the reality of these issues(not your fault...just disappointing).

It's way too easy to 'point the finger', Jager.

Believe what you want.

The original concept of this thread was that certain groups at this moment in time, from a certain part of the world are more prone to hijack a plane or commit a terrible act of terrorism, then that group should be looked closely. And you know what???? Its working! Many terrorist plots have been foiled through the hard work of law enforcement, concerned members of that community and yes.....racial profiling.

You want to dispute it, go on ahead. Swedes and Germans are not blowing up planes.

Until these groups learn that killing an inocent on a plane to make a point is just plain wrong, I say continue it.

[Podolski]

Four people are getting on a plane, and you can only check one of them for bombs etc. There's an elderly woman, single mum with her baby and a guy in his mid twenties. You would check the guy right? Because most crimes are commited by men and normally within that age group. Would you say it's wrong this certain group is automatically affiliated with crime?

[sinoy1]

That isnt racial profiling....Now if the elderly woman was muslim they'd strip her in a room interrogate her for hours and let her board the plane after exhaustion and stress....why? Because a few nutcases somehow relate a religion to their "war".What does that do? It makes billions of people go under scrutiny just because you believe in a certain faith.Even though those same people give you massive amounts of warnings months in advance....

Now that is racial profiling.Is it wrong...dunno...doesnt surprise me to tell you the truth.

The other day I was stopped by a university security man...asked me if I was a

"Student of this wonderful institution...wait let me simplify it...do you go to this school"

I said : "Are you a security officer of this terribly beat down yet insanley expensive institution where we pay for a diploma and aren't garunteed a job afterwards.....wait let me simplify it...name and security badge please"

after a few snide remarks from the man I showed him my student card and when I asked him for his badge he just walked away even though there was a bunch of other people around but didnt ask them either....

would that consitute to racial profiling?Was it right?Dont think so...of all the dozens of people he spotted me and asked me if I was a university student....pffft Does he even have university degree

**rant over**

[Jager]

The other day I was stopped by a university security man...asked me if I was a

"Student of this wonderful institution...wait let me simplify it...do you go to this school"

I said : "Are you a security officer of this terribly beat down yet insanley expensive institution where we pay for a diploma and aren't garunteed a job afterwards.....wait let me simplify it...name and security badge please"

after a few snide remarks from the man I showed him my student card and when I asked him for his badge he just walked away even though there was a bunch of other people around but didnt ask them either....

would that consitute to racial profiling?Was it right?Dont think so...of all the dozens of people he spotted me and asked me if I was a university student....pffft Does he even have university degre

This doesn't mean anything. Maybe you looked suspicious? Or were acting suspicious.

If a bunch of mormons in whites shirts and black ties were in one corner, and you had a rappers possee in another corner, which group would you search first for narcotics?

We have a limited amount of man power, we can't search everybody. We have to pick the more likely.

[sinoy1]

If you dont see the problem in 1 person in a dozen people and stopping that 1 guy and decide to be all condescending ignorant and talking down to then I fail to see why we immigrated to this "free" country.

1) I wasnt acting suspicous....hell there was a white guy in baggier ( is that a word? ) clothing with dreds and a red bandana....

2) ......rappers posse? Hell Im more fearful in the guys in business suits to be honest.

3) you're making excuses once more.

Im done with this subject.Ignorance has taken over...I cant tolerate it.

[apetimberlake]

Agreed

[Jager]

There is no ignorance. There are many ways of looking at it. You see the way of sitting back, and doing nothing, in the name of fairness.

While I like a more proactive approach. Doing nothing has done nothing in North America, accept create a great environment for organized crime to thrive in. Especially in Canada, thanks to the likes of you guys.

[apetimberlake]

Originally Posted by Jager

There is no ignorance. There are many ways of looking at it. You see the way of sitting back, and doing nothing, in the name of fairness.

While I like a more proactive approach. Doing nothing has done nothing in North America, accept create a great environment for organized crime to thrive in. Especially in Canada, thanks to the likes of you guys.

So a proactive approach seems to mean having the police searching out arabs...blacks....sikhs or whatever minority the police see fit and questioning them about commiting crimes???

Maybe if there was a gold or diamond rip off we should hang out in front of the local synagogue and question jews?

Sounds like Italy or Germany in the 1930's

No thanks..

[Forza_Roma]

The other day I was stopped by a university security man...asked me if I was a

"Student of this wonderful institution...wait let me simplify it...do you go to this school"

I said : "Are you a security officer of this terribly beat down yet insanley expensive institution where we pay for a diploma and aren't garunteed a job afterwards.....wait let me simplify it...name and security badge please"

after a few snide remarks from the man I showed him my student card and when I asked him for his badge he just walked away even though there was a bunch of other people around but didnt ask them either....

would that consitute to racial profiling?Was it right?Dont think so...of all the dozens of people he spotted me and asked me if I was a university student....pffft Does he even have university degre

They have the right to ask for your student id at any time they please and if you refuse, Campus police will arrive and do it for you and embarrass you in front of your peers in the process. Don't be a smart ass with Campus police...they do a lot to patrol campus and keep you students safe. Along with all other University staff.

[G-R87]

Originally Posted by Jager

You want to dispute it, go on ahead. Swedes and Germans are not blowing up planes.

Until these groups learn that killing an inocent on a plane to make a point is just plain wrong, I say continue it.

But then doesn't this imply that a specific Nation is responsible for certain crimes? You 'Germans' or 'Swedes' are not responsible...well in that case what Country is? I'm sure it is down to extreme religious ideas rather than nationality.

I too find these acts of terror absolutely deplorable, so don't get me wrong, but I cannot remember these acts being down to a specific nation. (i.e. it is one particular country that is responsible for terrorism).

We could argue forever, but IMO you do not have the insight to claim whether this profiling is right or wrong. Sure, it is common sense to monitor specific groups based whether or not it is right, but the idea of Racial Profiling is way too generalised to suggest that it is the right option.

Remember, you cannot judge a book by it's cover. You argue that if a group is likely then monitor them, but can you possibly determine them to be likely simply because of what category they fall into?

Perhaps there is a degree of truth behind some limited profiling...but only when the circumstances are absolutely necessary.

Scenarion: If a fellow italian commits a theft, would you accept it if the governing bodies monitored you because you happen to share the same 'group'?

I cannot leave this issue because I will not accept it. The only reason specific 'groups' are monitored is because they are part of the minority; This is why it is not fair...you cannot treat one person differently from another without being racist. Until you understand this I will not accept the issue.

I will argue that it doesn't work because I see the 'groups' who are not monitored commiting the same crimes. Racial Profiling is an example of turning a blind eye to the rest of the nation and pointing the finger at the minority groups.