Ellis Out!!!!!!!!!

[andy villa]

in a way i agree, but i would rather we didnt just throw them into first team action because we have to rather than wanting to because our chairman is too tightfisted to strengthen the squad... villas youth is one of, if not, the best, in the country... they won both respective youth and reserve leagues and got to final of fa youth cup last year... there are lots of decent potential youth players at villa... however, we are having to throw them in at the deep end, instead of aclimatising them to the pace, strength and general hussle and bussle of premiership football... look at peter whittingham... great prospect... thrown in too early out of necessity and suffered burn out near the end of the season.. we still havent got the same whittingham back yet....

[andy villa]

Once again people believed Doug Ellis when he said the club would spend money this summer. Once again people are telling fans to “get behind the team” rather than call for the head of the Chairman. Well, it's possible to do both – and it's ironic to see that the 'Doug Ellis supporters' want a man who in my opinion is all about supporting himself – rather than the football club.

I'm sure some of you have seen these arguments before. For some fans a few of these reasonings will be new. They are all backed up with evidence – and all feature quotes where possible from someone who you could trust that they knew what they were talking about.

Failure To Go Forward
Whenever Aston Villa have had a successful season, and really looked to be ready to break into that elite of the top clubs in the Premiership Doug Ellis has always failed to back his manager in the quest to get us there. We do not have to look far to see an example of this. It was only this summer, after David O'Leary had culled 15 players from his squad that had been inherited from Graham Taylor, and only allowed to replace them with four permanent players, and two more year long loan signings Villa have not only angered O'Leary, who has placed his displeasure at the lack of transfers coming into Villa Park in many an interview. It has also taken the squad down to a level that will be at breaking point should injuries and suspension kick in. Ellis's refusal to give money to O'Leary in the early part of the summer meant the club were behind others when £6million cash was eventually made available – left playing catch up once more. We spent £2million this summer – while clubs who were thought to have less money splashed the cash – even West Bromich Albion spent four times as much as Aston Villa. Failure to buy could be proved to be vital. With Liverpool and Newcastle looking that they may stall this season, the golden Champions League fourth place could have been there for the taking.

This is not the first time Ellis has failed to support his manager when needed to push forward. Forgetting the fall from grace we had when Doug took over the club for the second time, Mr Ellis has failed to take the club further after the 1992 second place finish in the Premier League, the 1994 and 1996 cup triumphs and 2000 FA Cup runners up achievement. After Ron Atkinson had bought in Guy Whittingham and Andy Townsend in the summer of 1993, he was reported as saying “I wanted Klinsmann and Keane, but had to cut my cloth to suit the chairman's pocket”. Both players would have certainly taken the club forward a big deal, but Ellis forced Atkinson to go down the 'cheap route'.

Interference
This is a topic that Ellis has been accused of for many years. The famous case of Ginola is normally brought up – and if rumours are to be true Ellis was begging to bring his “son” Dwight Yorke back to Villa Park. Obviously, Pro-Ellis fans will say that they are only that – rumours. So lets ask Graham Taylor, a man who knows Doug well. Graham says of Ellis:

“If I wanted to sign any players I would talk to Doug and I’d talk in a manner; say we were weak in the left-back spot as an example, I’d sit with Doug and start talking about left-backs and ask him what he thought. Sooner or later, I could manipulate him so that he’d mention the player I was after. And once he mentioned him, I’d chip in and say what a good shout it was, and I knew I’d get the player because Ellis could say he’d recommended him – as long as they came good.”
So the only way Graham could get Doug to spend was to get the chairman to think that he suggested him? That's pretty damning is it not? And it sure is interference – only wanting to buy players that Ellis himself suggested.

Ellis has often voiced his concern over the team selection – even going onto Sky television on before one John Gregory game complaining of the absence of Bosko Balaban. That was the infamous interview when Ellis claimed “No one has less ambition for Aston Villa than me”. Freudian slip maybe? Only a few months back he was quoted in the newspapers telling David O'Leary to pick youth players (despite the manager having expressed concern that they are not as good as some may think). He almost boasts in his autobiography, when he tells the reader he tried to persuade Brian Little to buy Roberto Carlos and Juninho. Whether you rate the player or not, shouldn't the manager being the one persuading the chairman who to buy?

Mr Ellis's interference doesn't just stop at the team. The famous quote of him liking “a finger in every pie” certainly seems to be true. Only weeks before Mark Ansell's exit at Villa Park, Doug Ellis spoke to the Evening Mail claiming: “I look after all the finances, despite us having a finance director.”. Seriously, what's that all about?
In fact, his ego and attitude that he is Mr Aston Villa cost the club getting one of the best English managers ever to have been in the game. We are told that Brian Clough wanted the Villa job before he left Derby, yet Mr Ellis boasts in his autobiography that he didn't like Clough's way and told him “There is only one boss at Aston Villa – and that is me”. He actually used those words.

His interference and constant pressure makes the manager feel very uncomfortable – John Gregory admitted he turned to defensive tactics to grind out results, scared that if he lost he'd get sacked. “I'm in fear of losing my job but I have been since the day I started here" he once said.

[andy villa]

Unpopular With His Own Players
Bit of a short one, this but it's still one worth mentioning I think. As a player you want to be happy – like who you are playing for. It gives you an extra boost to go out on that pitch and play well for the club. During the “pound sign protests” several Villa players on their way into the ground took some protest leaflets off fans giving them out to show the fellow teammates. In fact one player urged us to keep going with it. The players that all seemed particulary interested in the protests were later sold that summer.

Wasted Millions of Villa's Money
This one may be a bit of a surprise to some, especially when you consider that Doug has a reputation of being a bit of a tight so-and-so. But Doug Ellis has wasted millions of pounds that has belonged to Aston Villa F.C.

Under his management Aston Villa spent over £25million on the Trinity Road Stand. This was done to increase the stadium's capacity by only a few thousand. This was despite the club only selling out two or three games a season. Was this £25million outlay really worth it? In fact, the stand was so over-budget that it still isn't finished now, with boxes on the end looking unfurnished and unused.

Just imagine what that money could have done on the team. Or how it could have been used to update the club's training facilities. It certainly would no longer be stuck in the 1970's timewarp that it is now.

We are still only getting attenedances around 38,000 regularly. However, Ellis is determined to make Villa Park into a 50,000 seater stadium. On the 1st March 2004, Ellis told the Evening Mail:

"Attendances are up on average. In other words it is the old story, success breeds success.

"We have 42,600 seats and I have planning consent for another 8,000 seats to go on the North Stand area.

And then, nearly three months later he claimed:

"The plans are on my desk but I think most people will agree that until we can get a very, very good 'load factor' on the existing seats and the team are in the top half of the table and looking to get back into Europe that's time to build.

"It will not be built this summer, but maybe next, all things being equal with the team.

So, at the end of this season Doug wants to build a new stand instead of pushing a promising team further. He wishes to build a stadium before he has built the team – despite the fact that we just aren't near selling out the ground. But that shouldn't really be much of a shock, as Doug Ellis loves building things. He certainly loved the money he made from employing his own company, Ellmanton, to build Bodymoor Heath.

But it's the stands he really enjoys. In his autobiography you may think that Doug would say that his main aim when he took over Aston Villa was to create one of the best teams in Europe. To help run a professional team on and off the pitch that makes the fans proud. Nope. Ellis claims the following was his dream: “[to build a] multi purpose stadium available for a whole range of activities”. Oh right. Nothing to do with the football then?

A Man Hard to Get on With
Managers find it very hard to get on with the chairman. When was the last time we had a manager who was not reported to have had a “bust up” with Ellis at some time? Possibly Graham Taylor, during his first stint in charge. Say what you like about Taylor's second spell in charge but it's generally accepted that Graham is an honest man who wouldn't want to hurt anybody. He was said to be a good friend of Doug's and they got on well. Yet even in his first spell at the club, Graham fell out with Ellis:

“At Watford I could have the final say on every appointment, and I think I’m at my best when I’m in complete charge. I was manager of the club rather than just the team, and I had to bring a bit of that to Villa. The situation needed it.

“The first board meeting I attended was in September – and I’d been appointed in May. We hadn’t got off to the best of starts and I had a massive row with the chairman at this meeting. The media had got hold of the story that I wasn’t happy with what I was finding, Doug wasn’t happy at this and decided to take me to task over it. At the time the board consisted of him, his doctor, his solicitor and his son. I told him that we weren’t compatible and if he didn’t like it then he should sack me. Of course, I knew he couldn’t afford to do that.”

And of his second time in charge:

“Villa were run by Doug Ellis, for Doug Ellis and behalf of Doug Ellis. I wasn't coming back to Aston Villa to be their manager to save Doug Ellis's skin. I needed help. I wanted fresh and clear leadership from the top but instead found a club in decline. I wasn't prepared to put up with the nonsense. The bottom line is Villa haven't won the title since 1982 or the FA Cup since 1957. If the club doesn't have the money or the ambition then the fans need to be told

“The structure has to be looked at on and off the field, people have to be able to look at themselves and say it is time for a change. I always think if you get things right at the top there is a good chance it will follow down”

So even a good friend of Ellis is now saying that Doug is only in it for himself and needs to leave now.

Remember the former Finance Director who didn't deal with the finances? Well, the Evening Mail has Mark Ansell saying he was trying to “accelerate the change of ownership” so Villa could be taken forward – so Ellis got rid of him to preserve his place.

[andy villa]

Share Price:
When the club was first floated on the stock exchange it was said that Villa were a good investment “in the short, medium and long term”. Aston Villa's original price was £11 per share. With 11,449,000 shares in flotation, that left the club valued at £125,939,000. Under Doug Ellis's management we have seen the club fail to win any major trophy since flotation and the share price has dropped to £2.85. That means that Villa's value under Ellis has dropped roughly £90,000,000. Yet we are told that Doug is a great businessman. Yes, we aren't in debt. But exactely how many Premiership clubs are? Three or four at most.

While a chairman is not responsible for putting money into a club, some do. There is no evidence of Doug Ellis putting a penny into Aston Villa F.C. Even before they floated on the stock exchange. However, a recent tally suggested that he had taken at least £8,000,000 out of the club.

Too Old
Some could say that this is just a personal punch at Ellis, but how many businesses has a 80 year old an in charge? How many 80 year old men can deal with the fast comings and goings in a modern business? The rapid changing environment in which the football clubs work in. How many 80 year olds do you know that can adapt themselves to new things – let alone brand new business concepts to make more money.

Do you think Doug Ellis can do this? The very same man who I saw having difficulty in locking his car last year?

Mr Ellis sees himself as 'Mr Aston Villa' but as Villa's performance off the pitch, and the lack of support shown towards managers shows he is not up to it. The best example of this is detailed in the “Hodgson Report” - which is a look into how Aston Villa is run. A member of the club, who wished to stay anonymous for obvious reasons reports that an unhappy Juan Pablo Angel requested a meeting with the chairman. Ellis has always wanted to be seen as Mr Aston Villa and this was an opportunity for him to show that he is exactly that, and sort out the Colombians problems. However, after five minutes Ellis left claiming he had another meeting to attend and that they could talk again. Angel was understandably left feeling upset and unwanted. Steve Stride, 'Operations Director' later confirmed to another director that Ellis's other appointment was a day out shooting.

Aston Villa Under Ellis Has Never Been Settled
Under Ellis as chairman Aston Villa have had 13 different managerial periods. As soon as a team has become settled, Ellis has sacked the manager (or they have left) and we have had to build again. The following managers have worked under Ellis:



Tommy Docherty: 1968-70;

Vic Crowe: 1970-74;

Ron Saunders: 1974-82;

Tony Barton: 1982-84;

Graham Turner: 1984-86;

Billy McNeil: 1986-87;

Graham Taylor: 1987-90;

Jozef Venglos: 1990-91;

Ron Atkinson: 1991-94;

Brian Little: 1994-98;

John Gregory: 1998-2002;

Graham Taylor: 2002-2003,

David O’Leary: 2003 – present.



Doug Ellis once claimed that John Gregory would be the last manager he would ever appoint.

Villa Are Not Run Correctly
A PLC generally follows certain codes of practice. These ensures that shareholder's interests are protected and the company is run well and efficiently.

Executive directors work in a management capacity in the business. Non executive directors do not. They attend board meetings in order to advise the executive and ensure the shareholders interests are protected. It is recommended that non executive directors should be of strong character and independent of the executive and that they should be changed at regular intervals.

Peter Ellis is an Aston Villa non-executive director. Peter Ellis is Doug's son. He also works in another company where his dad is the chairman. This is not independent.

It is recommended by the 'Code of Best Practice' that the three non-executive directors are changed at regular intervals to keep the directors independent. A nomination committee is needed to nominate new non-executives and replace older ones. The three appointed in 1997 for flotation are still there today. A fourth was employed last year – Steve Kind. All three original Non-Executives are the only people on this nomination committee – and they are hardly likely to recommend that they replace themselves! This is a subject dealt with in the “Hodgson Report”.

We are told in the “Hodgson Report” that Doug Ellis does not give budgets to the departments at Villa Park. Every request for cash has to go to him. Not only will this slow down the efficiency of the club, it means if Doug doesn't want to spend the money as he doesn't understand the area which the money is to be spent on, it may not get spent.

This leads to Aston Villa becoming stale and directors working to keep their job rather than be fair for Aston Villa F.C. It leads to 'fuck-ups' that could be avoided. Just how often could you say that Villa have made a simple mistake that shouldn't have been made? Why do they keep happening? Things like the shirt sponsor debacle. Things such as not even being able to sell season tickets properly. These things stop people going to Aston Villa F.C. Now, you may read this and say “I'm the biggest Villa fan in the world, me. Support the team”. Well, it's hard to support them when you haven't got your season ticket, and when it keeps happening to you it'll annoy some people. Yes, it may be Villa, but its also a service that people are paying for. And if they are not getting value for money, if they are not getting a decent customer service then they deserve to complain.

[andy villa]

A Liar
Doug Ellis has a history as a liar. I do not want someone I can trust in charge of the football team. This summer he said:

"We've brought in Martin Laursen, Carlton Cole, Vaclav Drobny and now Mathieu. And we're not finished yet" – LIE. We signed nobody else.

“We'll have the last laugh. We are exploring a number of options and we are working flat out” - LIE. It just left Villa fans groaning as we signed nobody else and certainly not a big name like Doug suggests.

On May 25th 2004: "We've also got planning permission for new dressing rooms and all the latest modern facilities at the training ground.

"We've been quoted £8million but we do not want to spend it until we've got the team right, because that is the absolute priority." - LIE. We have spent on neither.

Doug often says he is a Villa fan. Yet he was only too pleased to be on the boards of Birmingha City and Wolverhampton Wanderers. Would a real Villa fan actually want to work at the highest level to try and get rivals up into the top? Would a Villa fan confess to regularly owning a Birmingham City season ticket?

On Protests: "In my view that has been instigated by certain people. To them, I can only say there wasn't anyone rushing forward to put money in the club when I did on two occasions.

"There was a small amount in 1968 and a bigger amount in 1982. Where were these people then? I try to do everything possible on behalf of the club and our supporters." - There is no proof in a recent study that this money exists. The only money I personally can see this means is an interest free loan in '68 – which was paid back to Doug.

In his autobiography: “Those critics who, over the years, have written that 'Doug Ellis won't cough up the ttansfer money' don't know the half. No-one has heard any of the clubs ex-managers make such a claim”. Is this why John Gregory complained about it? And why he later admits in the very same book to refuse to give anymore money to Gregory to spend but finding some for Graham Taylor? Is this why Graham Taylor complained of a lack of cash, too? Is this why David O'Leary has to a certain extent?

On 2nd August 2004: “We've spent well over £100m over the last five years.” - LIE. Thanks to Jon Fear who allowed me to use his working out instead of having to bother myself, here are the last five years worth of transfers:
PLAYERS BOUGHT: (17/07/1999 to 21/05/2004)



£3 000 000 Martin Laursen

£1 500 000 Nolberto Solano

£2 225 000 Thomas Sorenson

£2 225 000 Gavin McCann

£1 500 000 Ulises De La Cruz

£ 750 000 Mark Kinsella

£5 000 000 Peter Crouch

£2 000 000 Marcus Allback

£1 500 000 Stefan Postma

£2 500 000 Mustapha Hadji (+ Joachim)

£5 000 000 Olof Mellberg

£5 800 000 Bosko Balaban

£5 600 000 Alpay

£3 000 000 David Ginola

£9 500 000 Juan Pablo Angel

£5 500 000 Steve Stone

£1 700 000 David James

£4 500 000 George Boateng

£1 000 000 Najwan Ghrayib

Carbone, nominal fee.



Total Purchases £63 800 000

Wooops.

Mr Ellis says he works in the club's best interests. However, he refuses to listen to any offers for the club and any advice from anybody. Ray Ranson told the Evening Mail: "Doug Ellis, who has gone on record as saying he willing to listen to offers for the club, has declined to even meet us to discuss our plans.” How does Doug know that Ranson's bid wouldn't take Villa on further, if he didn't even talk to the men involved?

Probably, most horrendous of them all, in his autobiography Doug Ellis claims: “Way back in the mists of three decades earlier my aim was to be the people's chairman of the people's club”. LIE. However, he opposes the idea of supporter representation on the board. Hardly a 'peoples club'.

Mr Ellis simply cannot be trusted. His dealings have also got Aston Villa into trouble before. In 1993 we signed Australian goalkeeper Mark Bosnich. However, He could not gain a work permit. So Ellis suggested he got married to an English woman, and an Agency called First Wave agreed with the idea. The use of the agency was a breach of FIFA rules and Villa got fined £20,000 for irregular dealings with an agent. The full story, from the Evening Mail is as follows:

“In 1993, Mr Ellis was keen to capture the signature of Bosnich, who had been forced by British immigration laws to resign from Manchester United and return home.

“"The mechanism to change Bosnich's nationality was encouraged by Graham Smith, the director of First Wave, an agency," says Bower. "By marrying Lisa Hall, an Englishwoman, suggested Smith, the Australian would automatically receive British citizenship.

“"'I suggested a marriage,' said Ellis, although Lisa Hall would angrily deny the marriage was "arranged". Six months later the couple parted."

“Graham Smith's fee from Mr Ellis for arranging the transfer of Bosnich was an immediate payment of £150,000 - with the promise of a further £150,000.

“The transfer went ahead despite Mr Ellis knowing that his use of an agent was a breach of FA rules, Bower says. Aston Villa was later fined £20,000 by the FA for irregular dealings with an agent.

You may also like to know that he believes that he did not poach Brian Little away from Leicester City as manager as Brian asked about the job FOUR years before and Doug told him he'd consider Little next time a manager left. Unbelievable. This man thinks he can do no wrong – and in the hours of preparation I have read a lot of material on Doug. And not seen one apology – or one snippet admitting a wrong doing.

You can say he has not got in debt. But not many clubs have in the Premiership. Under Ellis we've seen decline and mediocrity for the majority of his stay – and only one real effort to make ourselves better than the rest – and as soon as Collymore hit some troubles the club abandoned him. He is guilty of everything I have mentioned as as such should be forced out immediately. If you have a vote for the AGM, you know how to vote.

John Cresswell,
editor@villatalk.com

[c.ronaldo#1]

i got to admit you do sound kind of pathetic. your complaining that you have spent 68 million on players since 99. do you know how much we (plymouth argyle) have spent on players? ill give you a clue the last player we signed for a fee was martin phillips & that was £25,000.

[andy villa]

again, no offense but argyle and villa are in two different footballing worlds.... for a top side in the prem £64 million in 5 years is pathetic... and thats not our net spend...

but thats not the point.. the point was that ellis told us he had spent £100 million.. he quite clearly hasnt.... so he lies to the fans... over and over....

i take it you havent read the whole article over the last 3 or 4 posts? if you havent, then read it before you call me pathetic.. if you have and are still calling me pathetic, on the basis of comparing a top premier league side with a side thats been languishing in the lower leagues for the past 5 years, then il take your comments with a pinch of salt.......

[c.ronaldo#1]

Originally posted by ralfwiggum
again, no offense but argyle and villa are in two different footballing worlds.... for a top side in the prem £68 million in 5 years is pathetic... and thats not our net spend...

but thats not the point.. the point was that ellis told us he had spent £100 million.. he quite clearly hasnt.... so he lies to the fans... over and over....

i take it you havent read the whole article over the last 3 or 4 posts? if you havent, then read it before you call me pathetic.. if you have and are still calling me pathetic, on the basis of comparing a top premier league side with a side thats been languishing in the lower leagues for the past 5 years, then il take your comments with a pinch of salt.......

you guys finished 6th in the prem last season. you can't complain too much.

[andy villa]

why should we be satisfied with 6th place?!?!? yes it was a great achievment that we went from 17th to 6th within a year. but it was only the poor appointment of ellis's mate, turnipboy, that put us there in the first place.... ellis thought that by hiring his mate, he would have another lapdog 'yes' man. he got that at the start... but then even turnip got fed up and left due to the way ellis runs the club....

now as we finished 6th last year, we had a great opportunity, to push on and progress the club further with investment and finish higher this year. we have a great manager and a great fanbase. but we have an idiot of a chairman who continually holds us back year after year and misses opportunity after opportunity to push the club forward year after year....

if, after reading what iv posted on this whole thread, you still think ellis is a good chairman, then theres not much helping you... im sure you didnt like dan mc'cauley... well ellis is like him but on a larger scale....

[c.ronaldo#1]

would you rather your club is in debt like leeds united?

[andy villa]

what a stupid question....

have you read all of the posts in this thread?

[c.ronaldo#1]

Originally posted by ralfwiggum
what a stupid question....

have you read all of the posts in this thread?

well it is possible that you can buy players who for what ever reason play poorly.